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#102874 - 07/07/08 11:14 AM
spaces after a period
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Zarkle
New Member
Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 12
Loc: Seattle, WA
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I have to adjust to typing 2 spaces at the end of sentences again? Is it just me or is this very out-dated? At least I get paid for spaces so that'll be easy money but come on. They do not use double spaces anywhere else (i.e., after colons). OK just ranting here but is this normal in the MT world?
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#102883 - 07/07/08 01:10 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Zarkle]
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inkyfingers2
Member
Registered: 03/25/03
Posts: 612
Loc: southern California
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Call it odd if you will, but all of my accounts (I'm an IC) use 2 spaces.
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inkyfingers
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#102885 - 07/07/08 01:13 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: inkyfingers2]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2679
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
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Ultimately, it is a style question, so there can be no hard and fast rule. 14tonks makes an impressive argument that in today's computer world, with proportional fonts, a single space is quite appropriate. However, if there is a rule, it would be the Golden Rule, he who pays the gold makes the rules.
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tropsicle
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#102897 - 07/07/08 07:23 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Zarkle]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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OK just ranting here but is this normal in the MT world?
It is an old-fashioned leftover from the typewriter era, but as Trops say, thems as has the gold makes the rules in all worlds. What is absolutely normal in the MT world is to get a number of totally different style requests for different accounts. It's also normal in the smart MT world to let your expander or some macros handle those things for you so that you never have to stop to remember which account this is and what they want or force yourself to try to remember to do things differently than you are in the habit of doing them.
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#102908 - 07/07/08 09:15 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: 14tonks]
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moaab
Member
Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 467
Loc: Chicagoland
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I'm a leftover from the typewriter era (manual), and it has been pounded into me to type two spaces after both periods and colons. However, as Tonks said, if my employer only wanted one space, I would do whatever the one who pays me wants!
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Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.........Abraham Lincoln's mother
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#102909 - 07/07/08 09:30 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: moaab]
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AnnR
Member
Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 18511
Loc: Ocean Park WA
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I'm a typewriter fossil, too. At one time I had two main accounts, one of which required 2 spaces, the other required 1. Switching, report-to-report, was fun.
The weight given to minutiae like this is one of the real defects of QA these days.
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so many docs dictate stuff that makes sense only to them. . .
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#102926 - 07/07/08 10:53 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: AnnR]
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Kimmyie
Junior Member
Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Minnesota
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I do not really think it is out of date, but just a preference. I use speech recognition which only puts in one space, but they can't change the setting as it interferes with other things the software is doing (so says Dictaphone). When typing, whether on a computer or an old fashioned typewriter, the two spaces are because when you write long hand, you put a larger space at the end of a sentence than you leave between words so when typing, you leave two spaces rather than one. I have never heard using one space is out dated or that one or two spaces is the preferred way. Where do you find that the new way and preferred way is one space? This sounds argumentative and I do not mean it to, just wanting to find the reference you are using as I was wondering if there was a preferred way of numbering lists. I was looking for a site with the most "up to date" styles, but found nothing but sites that list the different styles, but not recommending any.
Kim
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Kim
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#102929 - 07/07/08 11:06 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Kimmyie]
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Jiffer
Member
Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 132
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Hi Kim,
I found a reference on page 66 of the 2nd edition of the BOS that says either is acceptable along as usage is consistent. I don't know what the BOS 3 says on the matter.
Jiffer.
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#102933 - 07/07/08 11:25 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Kimmyie]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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Where do you find that the new way and preferred way is one space? This sounds argumentative and I do not mean it to, just wanting to find the reference you are using as I was wondering if there was a preferred way of numbering lists.
There are dozens of ways to number lists, which is why Word provides a whole gallery of choices for that. I'm not sure what that has to do with how many spaces you put after a period at the end of a sentence, though.
Yes, when you write longhand you leave a bit of a space after a period. More to the point, when type is set, an extra bit of space is left after periods to make it easier to see that a sentence has ended. The typewriter, however, had only one choice for spacing. In order to put any more space at the end of the sentence than there was between words, the only option was to hit the spacebar twice. That actually put in more space than was used when typesetting, but it was the best approximation that could be made with the equipment at hand. Then, towards the end of the typewriter era, typewriters were produced that could do proportional fonts, fonts in which letters took up different amounts of space. That made the output look more like typesetting, but there was still the handicap that there was only one spacebar that produced only a fixed amount of space, so double-spacing after the period continued to be the only way to approximate typesetting. Then along came computers. They not only offered proportional as well as fixed-width fonts (for a fixed-width computer font, see Courier), but with proportional fonts they were smart enough to recognize the end of a sentence and put in just a smidgen more space after the period there--just like typesetting. At that point the whole justification for double-spacing disappeared. In fact, if you are using a proportional font with justified lines, double spacing will wreak havoc with the appearance of your document.
This whole issue has been covered here extensively before. You can hopefully still find some of the previous threads in the archives. If not, that's the argument in a nutshell. People whose typing teacher taught them to double space because "that's the way it's done" frequently insist on continuing to do so, even though it is outdated if you are using a computer and proportional fonts in your word processing. As an MT, you will get clients who want double-spacing, clients who want single-spacing, and clients who don't care. You do what the client wants if they do care. If they don't care, I put in a single space except in the very rare instance that I am typing something in an old-fashioned nonproportional font. I have no need or desire to get into a knockdown fight about that with someone who double spaces, but personally, I prefer to do it the way professional desktop publishers do it.
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#102937 - 07/07/08 11:47 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Jiffer]
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Kimmyie
Junior Member
Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Minnesota
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Thanks Jiffer!
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Kim
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#102983 - 07/08/08 04:29 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Kimmyie]
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missp
Member
Registered: 09/11/99
Posts: 772
Loc: Tied to my desk typing (where ...
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Well, this is going to date me. I have always put two spaces after a period. Putting only one space was a complete no-no when I learned to type. I have two spaces so ingrained in my brain that I do it without even thinking about it, and would have an EXTREMELY hard time adapting if someone said they wanted only one space (been doin' it that way for 35+ years, and ya know the saying "it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks" grin).
Edited by missp (07/08/08 04:30 PM)
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#102993 - 07/08/08 05:30 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: missp]
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carolT
Member
Registered: 07/06/99
Posts: 1646
Loc: Canada
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I learned to type 60 years ago. It took me about a day and a half to get used to putting only one space after a period. You have to remember that you type literally THOUSANDS of periods a day, so you get LOTS of practice in a very short time!
;)
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carolT
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#103003 - 07/08/08 06:11 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: carolT]
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Ebit
Member
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 1294
Loc: Black Hole of the Internet
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Hear hear! I've found this to be true with the MTs I've asked to make the switch. Usually I tell them to not worry about it as they go along, but just run the Ctl-H search and replace function at the end of the report. Then they get used to seeing it the new way, and then they start doing it the new way, and next thing you know the new way is automatic, just like the old way was.
AnnR, do you really have a QA program that counts this as an error?
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The means are the end. - Laia Asieo Odo
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#103004 - 07/08/08 06:14 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: carolT]
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Donna2
Member
Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 6152
Loc: Sunny FL
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Also, don't forget that a lot of software programs have a Find/Replace feature. If you are used to doing 2 spaces after periods and now you have to do one, type a period (the symbol, not the word) then hit space bar twice to make 2 spaces in the Find field, and period then 1 space in the Replace field. You'll have an option to Replace All, but I would recommend doing them one by one. Really doesn't take all that long once you get smoking along. This is particularly helpful if you have several accounts, and most of them want 2 spaces, then bingo, an account comes up that wants 1 space.
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Donna
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#103008 - 07/08/08 07:00 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Donna2]
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AnnR
Member
Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 18511
Loc: Ocean Park WA
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Ebit, no, because none of my cesspool accounts specifically wants a single space. But back in the days of the "mandatory single space" account, it could have been.
Donna, that's a good point. One of my accounts had a Standard that was full of "@@" jump to markers and while that standard was being used, we had to use that feature to get rid of all those extra markers. Then somebody realized that by using that standard, MTs were getting an extra 30 to 40 lines every time they did that report type, and the standard got deleted!
Edited by AnnR (07/08/08 07:03 PM)
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so many docs dictate stuff that makes sense only to them. . .
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#103181 - 07/10/08 03:04 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: AnnR]
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lib527
Member
Registered: 09/05/00
Posts: 4373
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In Word, you can set up your grammar check to your preference, either 1 or 2 spaces after a period. That way, when you run the check, it will alert you if you put 2 spaces but only need 1 or vice versa. That was really the easiest way for me during the transition. Also, InstanText can be set up for auto spacing after periods so you don't even have to think about it.
I learned on a typewriter, too, and thought I'd never get used to 1 space, but I prefer it now. I think the reports with 2 spaces are harder to read now. Some people argue you're shorting yourself pay, and yes, I suppose you might get an extra or so line/report using 2 spaces. I've never done the math, but I doubt it would amount to much. For me, it's worth it to spare myself the extra wear and tear on the thumbs and wrists.
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All of us are Heaven sent, there was never meant to be only one~Incubus
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#103219 - 07/10/08 07:34 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: Zarkle]
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CajunRadMT
New Member
Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Louisiana
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As far as I know, I've always used two spaces at the end of a sentence. That's what I learned in my typing class in high school (1978 or so).  i be tellin' on meself
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When in doubt, leave it out! ~Cheryl
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#103225 - 07/10/08 08:42 PM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: CajunRadMT]
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Wordcraftr
Junior Member
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Midwest coast
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Reading through all these, I see all the pros and cons, much of them just preference, as the computer can do anything. But no one mentioned the one thing that I think is important. Given that paper is a much-wasted resource, typing only one space over the long haul reduces the overall amount of printed matter. I may not print my files, but at the other end somebody is going to print them and put them in a chart. So if I can cut down the amount of paper by spacing only once (if the client doesn't specify), then I will type only one space.
I learned to type on a manual typewriter in the Dark Ages and had it drilled into me to put two spaces between sentences, but found the transition easy. Now I find it annoying when I see those spaces. It looks so... so LOOSE.
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#103301 - 07/11/08 11:31 AM
Re: spaces after a period
[Re: lib527]
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Ebit
Member
Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 1294
Loc: Black Hole of the Internet
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In Word, you can set up your grammar check to your preference, either 1 or 2 spaces after a period. That way, when you run the check, it will alert you if you put 2 spaces but only need 1 or vice versa. That was really the easiest way for me during the transition. Also, InstanText can be set up for auto spacing after periods so you don't even have to think about it.
Oh hey, that's a good idea! I never have the grammar checker on myself, but several of my MTs do. That would work for them!
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The means are the end. - Laia Asieo Odo
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