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#104682 - 07/23/08 02:45 PM
Does anybody use a convection oven?
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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We have to buy a minimum of 400 gallons of propane at a time out here in the boonies. Trying to find a happy medium between propane and electric this winter.
I do a lot of baking during the winter and was just wondering if those little $300 convection ovens were worth the investment? Or maybe should plan to spend a little more?
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#104711 - 07/23/08 06:21 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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haggis
Member
Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 2859
Loc: Left Coast, FL
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I have a range with a convection option. It does bake a bit faster and a LOT more evenly, and typically at 25 degrees below the usual setting, but I'm not sure it would save you tons of money. Then again, if you bake a lot, it might. In FL, we're all electric and my bills are always too high. I'm afraid the only time I saw a big difference was when I stopped leaving the TV on all the time for background noise. 
Have you checked Consumer Reports or similar sites for actual numbers?
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#104721 - 07/23/08 07:09 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: haggis]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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I had thought about going with the range/convection option but we would have to run 220 and I'm not all that interested in an electric range. Don't think I've ever had one, actually. I was thinking more along the lines of trying to get through the winter with one barrel of propane.
You know, I haven't checked Consumer Reports. Good idea.
Thanks!
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#104767 - 07/24/08 06:47 AM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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Mich
Junior Member
Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 56
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I remember seeing a PBS cooking show that did a comparison on different counter top convection ovens. It was a scientist/cook type guy that did comparisons on various things, also remember a frozen pizza show. When it was a food item, he would compare the premade version against homemade. Sorry, I don't remember name of show though, maybe you can Google.
Mich
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#104870 - 07/24/08 07:27 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: Mich]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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That sounds interesting. Could you give me a hint on what to Google, like time of day or something maybe?
_________________________
Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#104878 - 07/24/08 08:37 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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As Haggis says, cooking time is somewhat shorter and temp a bit lower, but it's probably only going to save you a really noticeable amount if you really do a lot of baking. I have always bought microwave/convection combination microwave ovens since I have only a very small stove with a small oven in my apartment, and the auxiliary oven space is extremely handy if I cook any kind of sizable dinner. That might be too little oven space for someone who is planning on a lot of baking, or it might not.
There's another possible option. Do you have any halfway decent southern sky exposure? Have you given any thought to a Tulsi hybrid solar oven with electrical supplementation? That allows you to take advantage of whatever amount of solar energy you might have available without having to worry about insufficient or uneven cooking temperature--practical solar for those of us in northern latitudes or cloudy areas. It might both spare your propane supply and minimize your electric bill. Even if you have only enough sun to get the oven temperature to 200, that is still going to reduce the amount of electricity you need to maintain a 350 baking temperature (they claim 75% less electricity consumption than a conventional oven, and usability all the way to Canada):
http://www.eartheasy.com/solar_oven.htm
http://www.eartheasy.com/article_solar_ovens.htm
http://store.sundancesolar.com/tusocoov.html?productid=tusocoov&channelid=FROOG
http://shop.solardirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=469
(30-day money back guarantee from these guys)
Review:
http://www.comparethebrands.com/compare/60
Edited by 14tonks (07/24/08 11:51 PM)
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#104903 - 07/24/08 10:41 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: 14tonks]
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AnnR
Member
Registered: 12/31/69
Posts: 18511
Loc: Ocean Park WA
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Fostermama, my guess would be America's Test Kitchen. Times, etc. may depend on your location.
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so many docs dictate stuff that makes sense only to them. . .
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#104918 - 07/25/08 06:56 AM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: AnnR]
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Mich
Junior Member
Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 56
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Fostermama, my guess would be America's Test Kitchen. Times, etc. may depend on your location.
That might have been it, but I don't know. It's not a show we watch on a regular basis. My DH probably had it on either for background noise and/or because the other cooking shows were reruns we had seen again and again. It's been a good while, so I have no idea when it was on. Sorry.
Mich
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#105065 - 07/25/08 10:51 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: 14tonks]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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Now that's way cool. I'll probably end up getting one of them. For some reason, I thought they were outrageously expensive, so I didn't really check into them. Many thanks.
_________________________
Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#105066 - 07/25/08 10:53 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: AnnR]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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America's Test Kitchen. I'll bet that's it. I just checked out the website, but looks like it might not be available on TV out of the Kansas City PBS. The website looks like it will have a lot of information even if I can't get the program. Thanks so much.
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#105068 - 07/25/08 11:23 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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For some reason, I thought they were outrageously expensive, so I didn't really check into them. Many thanks.
There are giant hybrid solar ovens for community use in the third world that turn out up to 300 loaves of bread at a time--those are, indeed, quite expensive, although they quickly pay for themselves with fuel saved if the community investment money can be found.
Many see the Tulsi as very expensive compared to simpler solar reflector panel arrangements for well under $100. The problem is those cheap solar ovens aren't going to work well except at high noon in desert areas. The Tulsi is the only thing currently available in this country that will work in virtually all climates at any time of day and that can handle larger amounts of food and heat to higher temperatures by using electrical supplementation. Your total energy savings is, of course, dependent on how much solar you have available to use versus how much electricity you have to feed it to supplement (as well as what kind of containers you use in it etc.), but I find it a very interesting practical approach to solar cooking for the developed world, where solar energy levels may be lower, but electricity is generally available although we'd like to minimize use due to cost. It can often be used with very little or no added electricity as a very neat crockpot cooker that can slow cook several separate dishes at once. With its added side reflectors and an electricity boost, it can handle a wider range of cooking jobs--most things except for frying and real grilling/browning. As with microwave ovens, it is better suited to some types of cooking than others and you may need to make some adjustments in your recipes and cooking utensils to get the best results, but it would seem a worthwhile approach for someone like you who is looking to minimize propane use without breaking the budget with a big electrical bill.
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#105073 - 07/26/08 12:36 AM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: 14tonks]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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you may need to make some adjustments in your recipes and cooking utensils
That just occurred to me, still unclear from the website. Can you cook in your regular bakeware, pyrex, cast iron, etc., or do you have to use only stainless steel? I see it comes with four stainless steel pots. Wonder if I should invest in more cookware?
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#105076 - 07/26/08 01:03 AM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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You can cook in your regular Pyrex glass bakeware, particularly since the inside of the Tulsi is itself matte black rather than reflective, but it will take somewhat longer for things to cook. Corning's amber Visionware would be better than clear Pyrex, but people do use both. Thin, dark-colored metal pans and pots are the most efficient to use with solar. Cast iron will take much longer to heat than thin black steel pots, but it does hold the heat very well also, so you may like it for some things although you'll probably want to preheat it before putting it in the oven to avoid a long, long wait while it reaches temperature (there's a lot of mass in a cast iron pot to soak up energy). Most people have a few dark-finished cookie sheets and/or baking pans around; however, as with switching to glass and plastic for microwaving, you may need to supplement your current cookware with a couple of additional items. They do provide 4 round stainless steel tins with tight-fitting lids, painted black (not sure I'd call them pots exactly)--just the thing for cooking up various curries for an Indian dinner (Tulsi is manufactured in India), but you may want to substitute some other shapes and sizes of cookware for your cooking. The tins supplied are useful for filling extra empty space around another baking pan, though, even if you don't cook in them much. (The less empty air to heat, the better the performance of a solar cooker.) Note that the interior of the Tulsi is relatively shallow, so you will need to keep that in mind when picking cookware. Skillet and low casserole shapes are most suited. Look for black/very dark glass or black metal. You might have some of the once-popular black enameled/graniteware steel pots/pans our grandmothers favored for inexpensive cookware, although the finish should preferably be matte, not shiny, for solar. Dark/black finished aluminum would be even better than stainless because aluminum is a better heat conductor. Most professional cooking suppliers have thin black mild steel skillets, etc. And, of course, you too can apply some appropriate matte black paint to the outside of something you already have if necessary (black paint for barbecues is usually recommended in this country). You can also try sticking a shiny/reflective container inside a close-fitting dark paper bag or cloth cover. You want to minimize mass to be heated and maximize heat absorption and conduction, so you just think thin, dark, and matte when picking cooking utensils. There are none of the hot-spot problems cooking with solar that you get cooking on a range top, so cheap, thin cookware is actually better. Solar ovens are tightly sealed to prevent heat loss, and it's preferable to cook in covered containers unless you're baking (condensation clouds the glass oven cover and cuts down on solar transmission), so there is little moisture loss. You don't need added water for most meat/vegetables, and for other recipes you may want to make the same sort of adjustments you make for crockpot versus stove top cooking.
I think there are some solar cooking cookbooks around these days that should help get you pointed in the right direction. Check Amazon. You might also Google something like solar cookware and see what you find.
ETA: If you live where there is strong, reliable sun, at some point you may also want to play around with an all-solar parabolic cooker for higher-temperature cooking or cooking in a larger container. I'd try a Tulsi first, though, preferably from someone that will let you return it if you're unhappy. Try a couple of things in it before you run off to buy a lot of new cookware, etc., and see how you and solar cooking suit each other. Cooking with wood is different from cooking with gas which is different from cooking with electric which is different from cooking with microwaves which is different from solar cooking. Some people find it easier than others to adjust their cooking techniques to a new method.
Edited by 14tonks (07/26/08 03:17 AM)
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#105100 - 07/26/08 11:55 AM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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I, alas, am in Manhattan steel canyon country where only those with the money to be living up in the penthouses have exposure for much solar, so you're mostly picking my brains for solar cooking based just on "back when" (friends had a totally solar house), camping, etc.
The no heating up the house to cook in the summer is actually another one of the big selling points for having a gizmo like this so, yeah, go ahead and give it a try now. Anything that works for you now should work for you in the winter, although you'll probably be pulling more supplementary electric in the winter due to lower ambient temperature and the lower sun angle that results in lower UV levels. (The lower angle results in marked UV intensity drops everywhere, but it's most noticeable above 40 degrees latitude, so again your location makes a big difference here.) The pizza stone would absorb a lot of energy--I don't know if there would be a browning effect on the bottom from it in a solar oven or not, though. (Solar ovens tend to brown the tops of foods rather than the bottom, so it might be worth experimenting.) People do sometimes use bricks, etc. under pots as a heat sink, so I'd say that's something else to play around with and see, both how long you'd need to preheat it and how it effects results. If you're not happy with the stone, you might try a dark mild steel metal tray heated up as hot as possible before you put the pizza on it to bake. I'd skip the plastic microwave cookware. Clay pots are possible, although not the fastest cooking cookware. They need to be well-sealed and dark-colored for any decent heat conduction. I've done cornbread and sheetcake thingies in solar ovens that came out fine. For good biscuits, you're going to need high temp and a dark sheet to bake them on. You'll have to play around to see if the Tulsi with all reflectors deployed and maybe an additional electric goose will give you the temp you need for those.
Geez, a $1200 price tag would have abruptly ended my investigations of solar alternatives as well. You can put together a little CooKit kind of thingie for less than $20, and there are lots of do-it-yourself plans around for other cheaper solar cookers as well. The only problem, as originally noted, is that pure solar is rather unreliable in much of this country for much of the year versus where I grew up in New Mexico, which is primo solar country--strong sun all day almost every day. Having a hybrid oven makes it much simpler and more worry-free as long as you don't mind using a bit of elecricity as well.
See what's around for cookbooks, and I think there may be some websites and newsgroups out there for solar cooking enthusiasts as well. You definitely have the right mindset for solar, so I think you'll have fun and cook some good stuff. 
ETA: Parabolic and box cookers function somewhat differently and put out different maximum heat levels, so when looking around for recipes make sure you're clear on how and with what the recipe writer was cooking. Parabolics have to be constantly manually tweaked to follow the sun and can put out a dangerous amount of bounced light, but they can concentrate heat enough for deep frying, etc. However, their performance can be strongly affected by low temperatures and/or high winds. Box cookers are easier to use and safer but generally produce lower temperature levels. The Tulsi is a small, shallow box cooker with some optional extra reflector panels and electric supplement/backup, so it's closest to a solar-only box or combination reflector box when cooking. BTW, the shallow isn't that big a drawback--flat, shallow containers are the most efficient size for any solar cooker. One other point--as when microwaving, small chunks cook faster than big chunks and it may be more efficient to cut things up and/or to cook in several small batches rather than one large one. As my chemical engineer-gourmet cook father explained to me as a child, baking is just chemistry. Of course when it's solar baking, it's also a bit of mechanical engineering and physics. Figure out the rules of heat transfer you're dealing with, and you'll start feeling comfortable playing around and converting your recipes. (Solar is the only thing besides grilling that seems to get an oven mitt on some men. I remember Polly Evans back in the 60s threatening to chuck all the g-d engineers into her solar-heated pool if they didn't quit playing around with pot designs and positions in her solar wall oven and arguing thermodynamics long enough for her to just get dinner cooked, LOL.)
Edited by 14tonks (07/26/08 12:56 PM)
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#105114 - 07/26/08 01:58 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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I look forward to a critical review and progress report.
BTW, if that "fostermama" handle means you have a lot of little ones running around, I'd definitely stick to a box-style cooker for now--too easy for a little one to get in trouble playing around with a parabolic one. You will have to make sure they understand that they're not to open the lid even on the box cooker--it not only lets all the heat out, but if the oven is good and hot, there's likely to be a steam puff when the lid is lifted. A solar oven needs to be treated with the same respect as any other cooking tool. Since you don't open a solar oven while it's cooking, you could always just slap some kind of padlock or wraparound cable lock on the thing if curious kids turn out to be a problem, though.
You made me laugh. I can just picture some idiot gadget guy rigging up a bunch of sunlamps to run a solar oven at twice the electricity cost of just turning on the microwave, LOL.
Edited by 14tonks (07/26/08 02:05 PM)
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#105498 - 07/29/08 08:53 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: 14tonks]
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fostermama
Member
Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 889
Loc: Podunk
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. . . you have a lot of little ones running around . . .
Actually, we have juveniles, ages 13-17. We find we relate to that age group a little better. Time they realized that they alone are responsible for their actions - and the consequences, good or bad. Their choice. It's make it or break it now kid.
What's it like to live in New York City?
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
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#105509 - 07/29/08 09:32 PM
Re: Does anybody use a convection oven?
[Re: fostermama]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6974
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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What's it like to live in New York City?
Which NYC? There are hundreds of different ethnic groups, social classes, income levels, and cultural milieus with wildly varying associated lifestyles squashed together into this metropolis, LOL.
I would say it's as close as you can get to living somewhere besides America culturally while staying within its national borders politically. Of course, unless your name is Rockefeller or Trump, you probably need to be comfortable leaving the American suburban lifestyle behind for a third-world one as well.
It's unbelievably expensive, very crowded, endlessly interesting, sometimes alienating, and usually quite exhilarating. It's probably the last place in America where a car is regarded as either a virtually useless status symbol or a logistical burden rather than a necessity.
The place drives me completely mad at regular intervals, but I felt like I had come home at last the first day I set foot on its sidewalks, and the feeling hasn't really changed after more than 40 years.
Actually, we have juveniles, ages 13-17.
Good grief, I'd say you're a candidate for sainthood--those are the ages when most people can't even stand their own kids, LOL.
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Moderator: Annie
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and figured they were way out of my budget. 
