Before Posting Word Help Questions
please read the pinned/locked threads found
at the TOP OF THE WORD HELP FORUM! You can find them HERE


Search
Word Help
New MTs
Hot Zone
Grammar/Style
MT Biz
Who's Online
3 registered (NiteNinja00, 2 invisible) and 20 anonymous users online.
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Page 1 of 1 1
Topic Options
#108011 - 08/19/08 11:44 AM Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court
MattsKat
Member


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 2862
Loc: Here and Now...USA
This is not in the "elections" domain but a topic that might be of interest to anyone who's ever served in the military...(Trops!)

Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court Warns of Broad Consequences
Quote:
IRVINE, Calif. (AP) _ A former Marine sergeant facing the first federal civilian prosecution of a military member accused of a war crime says there is much more at stake than his claim of innocence on charges that he killed unarmed detainees in Fallujah, Iraq.

In the view of Jose Luis Nazario Jr., U.S. troops may begin to question whether they will be prosecuted by civilians for doing what their military superiors taught them to do in battle.

Nazario is the first military service member who has completed his duty to be brought to trial under a law that allows the government to prosecute defense contractors, military dependents and those no longer in the military who commit crimes outside the United States.

"They train us, and they expect us to rely back on that training. Then when we use that training, they prosecute us for it?" Nazario said during an interview Saturday with The Associated Press.

Quote:
If Nazario, 28, is convicted of voluntary manslaughter, some predict damaging consequences on the battlefield.

"This boils down to one thing in my mind: Are we going to allow civilian juries to Monday-morning-quarterback military decisions?" said Nazario's attorney, Kevin McDermott.

Others say the law closes a loophole that allowed former military service members to slip beyond the reach of prosecution. Once they complete their terms, troops cannot be prosecuted in military court.

Quote:
The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.

"Nazario said that he was asked, 'Are they dead yet?'" the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to "make it happen."
_________________________
Those who can laugh at themselves shall never cease to be amused.

Top
#108015 - 08/19/08 12:08 PM Re: Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court [Re: MattsKat]
tropsicleAfter
Member


Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2674
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
It's all in those details. He bases his innocence on an alleged radio command, of which there should be a record (yes, radio calls are logged).

I do believe that, and have seen, some soldiers sometimes allow their frustration to compel them to commit crimes. I do think that those crimes should be prosecuted. There is a question as to why the military did not take him to trial over this, and that may be telling. I do not believe that ex-soldiers should be immune from prosecution, but believe it will always remain a rare occurrence. I do not buy this soldier's defense based on what liability it may place other soldiers in, those broad consequences.

Again, it's all in the details and how the case is presented. I believe in the jury system and believe that things work out the way they are supposed to work out, 99.5% of the time.

ETA: Even discharged service members can be recalled to active duty in order to stand court martial, so the fact that they have not done so may be a key defense here.


Edited by tropsicleAfter (08/19/08 12:11 PM)
_________________________
tropsicle

Top
#108016 - 08/19/08 12:11 PM Re: Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court [Re: MattsKat]
ABMT
Member


Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1462
Loc: IL, USA
Not knowing the details of what happened and just going by what is in this article, I believe that when the marine told him to "make it happen" that would have been an unlawful order that he did not have to follow. It is also my opinion that they should be tried in military court as they were in the military at the time of the incident.

Edited by ABMT (08/19/08 12:12 PM)
_________________________
Ann

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Top
#108017 - 08/19/08 12:37 PM Re: Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court [Re: tropsicleAfter]
MattsKat
Member


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 2862
Loc: Here and Now...USA
Quote:
Even discharged service members can be recalled to active duty in order to stand court martial

Interesting! I didn't know that.
_________________________
Those who can laugh at themselves shall never cease to be amused.

Top
#108018 - 08/19/08 12:50 PM Re: Ex-Marine Charged in Civilian Court [Re: ABMT]
tropsicleAfter
Member


Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2674
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
A very good point, ABMT, about the unlawful order.

However, there is a practicality factor in play when a service member decides that he or she has been given an unlawful order, in that refusing to follow that order will rain a ton of bricks down on the head. This can be seen in the few, very few, incidents wherein a service member has decided that even being sent to Iraq was an unlawful order. Their courage of conviction resulted in their conviction for disobeying a lawful order, simply because those who sit in judgment are the ones that ultimately decide if the original order was lawful or not. Keep in mind that the Uniform Code of Military Justice is not at all like civilian law, both in basic foundation and in penalties.

IOW, standing up for your convictions opens you up to more liability, oftentimes, than you are able to take the heat for.

What service members are taught about what to do when given what they think is an unlawful order is to follow the order and then protest.
_________________________
tropsicle

Top
Page 1 of 1 1


Hop to:


Google
Web mtchat.com
mtdesk.com

Search MT CHAT Forums

MT Desk


Medical Abbreviations
Search By Abbreviation
Search By Definition
Pharma Companies
www.medilexicon.com